【说理论】亚当·卡鲁索：时尚站在建筑的对立面Part 0 |

胖大米daisy

【说理论】亚当·卡鲁索：时尚站在建筑的对立面
Part 0 | 引言
在建造技术与材料技术让人应接不暇的今天，越来越多的建筑师以及学生选择将视觉刺激，抽象表达，概念设计，未来设计等作为建筑设计的核心价值，时尚与流行也成为了当下影响国内建筑业发展的重要指标，甲方的诉求与部分设计师求新求异企图脱颖而出的双向作用力使得这个趋势在未来几年甚至几十年内都将成为主流。

英籍加拿大建筑师亚当·卡鲁索（Adam Caruso）却是在如今的大环境中保持着对建筑历史的敬畏并通过实践建立当代建筑与建筑历史之间某种联系性的建筑师之一。他通过精致的砖砌立面方案，赢得了位于德国不来梅市中心的银行总部竞赛。在受邀Louisiana Channel的采访中，他详细阐述了自己对当今建筑界种种现象的思考以及自己的理念，并提出了“时尚是站在建筑的对立面”。

通过OnLand Studio老师们和自愿参与整理视频文字的同学们的共同努力，我们将此次采访的内容全部整理为文字，并翻译成中文，供大家了解和学习。希望更多的小伙伴可以从中学习到对自己有用的内容。
Part I | 公共建筑
Adam Caruso：I think public buildings are the most important things that architects do. Because public buildings are for the public, you know they are expression of that kind of the small politics of the society you are working in, so it’s always, but for me, yeah, to work in a library or a museum or school，all of those things are interesting because they are public.
我认为公共建筑是建筑师所做的最重要的事情。因为公共建筑是为大众而服务的，你知道的，它们可以体现出我们身处的社会中的一些细微的政策。因此，对于我来说，设计图书馆，博物馆或学校（这些公共建筑），所有这类项目都很有趣，因为它们是公开的。

And those buildings, you know, they are the building that need to have a longer -term life. You have to think about how they are going to develop into the future. For me, architecture is a cultural practice. So, it’s although you run a practice, you have to run a business. It’s true and you have to be professional, that quiet an important thing, because I think architecture is a profession because you have responsibilities to society et cetera.
就像你知道的，这类建筑都拥有较长的生命周期。你必须去思考未来它们将会如何发展。对于我来说，建筑学其实就是人文上的实践。然而，虽然你必须要经历（文化上的）实践和尝试，但你也必须要通过设计来赚钱。这是事实，你必须要专业化，这是非常重要的事情，因为我认为建筑师是对社会等等事情负有责任的，因此建筑（师）又是一个职业。

But my real interest in architecture is as a cultural practice, and by that, I mean, I am interested in how you can make architecture today, that is somehow connected with the history of architecture, of, for me, the history of European architecture.
但我真正对建筑学感兴趣的事情正是文化上的尝试和实践，借此，我的意思是，我非常感兴趣如何使当代将建筑以某种方式与建筑的历史相关联，对于我自己来说，就是（如何与）欧洲的建筑的历史（相关联）。
            

胖大米daisy

And I think until the beginning of 20th century, that was self-evident when you were an architect. The way you make architecture was to study and become immersed and become expert in the history of your discipline, and then bring those things to bear in the projects and the problems of the day. That’s what you did.
我认为直到二十世纪初，假如您是（当时的）一名建筑师，这（种设计逻辑）仍是很显而易见的。您设计建筑的方法就是去学习（历史）然后沉浸其中，然后再成为这个学科历史方面的专家，然后再将这些东西纳入到（设计的）项目中，并用它们来解决当时的问题。这就是过去的建筑师们所做的事情。

And, in the late 19th century, I think it was the same in Denmark, there was a spirit of collectivism which in the modernist period got a bad name. But actually，I think it was an incredibly vital time. It was when architects were, it was the beginning of professionalism. Architects had really big knowledge about their discipline，they also had increasing capacity.
在19世纪末的丹麦也正在上演（类似的情况），当时社会上有一种集体主义精神，在现代主义时期这并不是一个褒义词。但是事实上，我认为那是一个至关重要的时刻。建筑师这一行业正是那时被确立的，那是（建筑师）专业化的开端。建筑师们对这一学科非常了解，他们的能力也在逐渐增强。

You know, because there were big projects at the end of the 19th century with industrialization，and they were interested in all kinds of architecture. So，at the same architect could make a classical railway Sta., they are later classical museum and a gothic railway station. And for very good reasons you know, and they were making those decisions on the basis of a kind of knowledge, but also maybe on the basis of ambitions or ideas from their clients as well, which I also think, it’s valid.
你知道的，在十九世纪末，很多大项目随着工业化的发展应运而生，建筑师们于是对各类建筑都颇感兴趣。所以，在相同的场地里，建筑师可以设计古典风格的铁路站，后来，它们变成了古典风格的博物馆，然后（又变成）哥特式的火车站。出于非常充分的理由，您知道他们是基于某种知识基础而做出这些决定的，但也可能是基于他们的客户的野心或想法，我也认为这是有效的（设计方法）。
            

胖大米daisy

And, it's, I think, it's highly problematic, it's a fantastic expression of like capitalism. that's why it's the mainstream. But the other way of practicing where you're an architect, you have a knowledge and an engagement with the history of your discipline. I think it's still possible, it can be an extremely fruitful way of practicing, and, but it's a kind of marginal way of practicing now.
我认为这是很有问题的，这是对资本主义的淋漓尽致的体现，这也解释了为什么这种设计方式成为了主流。但作为建筑师，还有另一种（设计的）实践方式——你熟知这个学科的知识和历史，并能够置身其中。我想这种（设计方式）仍是有可能的，这会是一种非常有效的实践方式，但就目前的情况来说，它仍是被边缘化的。

For me, the interesting thing about place is that, even with globalization, the tradition of architecture historically. But also, the way you make architecture today it's quite different in Denmark, in Germany, in Switzerland, in Britain, in France. They’re all quite different. The way you work with the clients is different, the capacity and the preferences of the industry are different.
对于我而言，即使有全球化带来的影响，但场地中最能引起我兴趣的正是建筑历史层面的传统。除此之外，当下在丹麦、德国、瑞士、法国这些国家，建筑师们设计建筑的方式也是非常不同的，截然不同。和业主合作的方式不同，行业的影响力和偏好也有所不同。

And of course, the history of architecture is different although they're connected.I think there's a real shared European architecture but they're different and those differences still exist.
当然，（在不同地区）建筑的历史是不同的，尽管它们是互相关联的。我认为存在真正可以被全欧洲共享的建筑，但它们（在不同地区）之间仍是不同的，这些差异现在仍然存在。

so, I mean, we do work across Western Europe and I think the projects are all quite different depending on where they are. So, the place is important. For me, place is an immediate site, but there is also kind of a deeper idea of the place, you know， it is the history in the culture of the place, and how you read it today.
所以，我的意思是，我们确实在整个西欧开展设计工作，在不同地区，这些项目有着很大的不同。因此场地是至关重要的。对于我来说，场地是（建筑）最直接的落脚处，但还有更深一层对场地的理解，你知道的，那就是场地所处的文化背景及历史，以及当下你如何来解读它。
            

胖大米daisy

Part II | 建筑与记忆

Marc Christoph Wagner：How does architecture and memory relate to each other?
（您认为）建筑和记忆如何互相关联呢？

Adam Caruso：I think they are very connected, you know, I think architecture, I mean, I didn’t make this up, but it’s our collective memory. You know if you walk around Copenhagen, which the …, if we discount the last 20 years is an amazing, and an amazing piece of city. And what’s specially amazing is that in the post-war period，modernism is very strong here but those architects continued to believe in the structure of the city, so they made modern projects that continued to sustain and to develop the structure of the city, the block structure, the scale, the materials are used brick.
我想它们是紧密相连的，你知道的，我并没有过分修饰这句话，我认为建筑就是我们的集体记忆。你知道的，如果你行走在哥本哈根，如果我们可以倒退20年，那将太美妙了，那是一个令人惊叹的城市。尤其令人惊奇的是，在战后时期，现代主义在那里非常的强势，但是建筑师们仍然继续去相信城市的结构，因此它们在设计现代建筑时仍然保持并发展着（原有的）城市架构，街区的结构与尺度，建筑材料也是使用砖。

And I think that if you look at a city, like Copenhagen, also city that wasn’t bombed, that it is like a kind of artifact, that if as you scratch, you scratch, you scratch, it tells you all of these things about… obviously it tells you things about history and its public buildings.
我认为如果你去看一个城市，如哥本哈根，或者其他没有被炸毁的城市，它就如同一个手工制品一样，如果你去一层一层的把它剥开，它会告诉你有关……，很明显它会告诉你有关它历史以及公共建筑的一切。

But I also think it tells you things about the much more everyday occupation of the city, about when certain areas were popular and what that meant, how those areas were adopted, because they were very Bohemian, or they were very working-class, or they were all bourgeois. And all of those things I think if you really look, there the evidence of that occupation is like a layer on the structure of the city, on its buildings.
但我还认为，这可以告诉你更多有关该城市每天如何被（民众）占据的信息，例如某些地区何时变得人流攒动以及这意味着什么，以及这些地区是如何被（民众）认同的，比如因为他们都是波希米亚人，或者都是工人阶级，或者都是资产阶级。我认为如果你去观察所有的这些事情，这些被占据的证据就如同城市结构以及城市中建筑的一个层面。